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get2sammyb · 03-11-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ten Flew South

Yeah, I think they're called verse, chorus and middle 8 LMAO!!!

Precisely, sir.

Styli · 03-11-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullofkittens

I don't think I've ever done two the same way.

Though at some point in every track that got finished, there was a moment in which I decided it was going to be good enough to finish and then I laid out the structure in the sequencer so I could see how long each section needed to be and start working out what was missing.

Pretty much ditto for me.

Arrangements come fairly easy to me, it's the lyrics I'm struggling with at the moment... Mainly cos I don't want to repeat something I've done/said before...

The greatest tip I ever heard regarding arrangement was not to use all your tricks at the start of a song. If you build up and keep some things until the end (like some strings coming in for the last chorus) you can keep the interest going longer.

I'll be the first to admit I can be very formulaic structure-wise, but it works for me! LOL

KRE8A · 10-29-2009, 04:02 AM

[quote=tehLORD;179124]That's a great link!

When i create music, i go by feeling. But in any case of building a song, it's good to know the proper procedure...

The only thing i get stuck on is how T/Head Lab states that it starts as a verse, chorus, break__ where do you go to after the break? i.e.. Can it be ( verse, chorus, break, chorus, cadence ) or how does it get worded from there,,, it's a little bit confusing. It would be nice to know the structure sequence - d:?)

saturnfive · 10-29-2009, 04:11 PM

I would say it's like most things: better to rough it out first and then work in the detail...You don't start a painting in one corner and finish it as you go across...

That said I think whatever works, or whatever inspires you is the best method. Sometimes I find if I just put the bare stuff in, the sound won't convince me and it's only after doubling guitars etc. that it starts to actually sound good....

Italye · 11-04-2009, 12:13 AM

Ha, usually when I paint i work on about a square inch at a time, randomly.
With music, I'll make one part, work on it until it's pretty good, make a variation of it, make another variation... until i feel like i need an entirely new part, and usually i get bogged down trying to fit the new part with the old part, and all of it's variations.

thereformant · 11-04-2009, 12:33 AM

My problem is that normally i'll come up with a bunch of parts that flow into each other but by the end of the last part ive come up with im so far removed from the first part that I cant get back again so I often end up with really odd structures like this:

Intro - Intro 2 - VerseA - VerseB - Chorus - Middle Section - VerseC - Middle Section 2 - VerseA2 - Verse B2 - Chorus - Ourto

I'll often end up with palindromic bits in order to get to an actual repetiion of a part. ie/ ABCDEDCBC

It also makes preparing crib sheet tricky, I just finished doing a load for knowing when to cur vocal takes for recording tomorrow and the riff density is ridiculous 19 parts in 6:30, and 22 parts in 8:03 were the 2 most ridiculous ones. Although to be fair a few of the parts are variations of previous ones.

Ewal · 11-06-2009, 02:38 PM

This is something I'm interested in, because I guess like alot of folk I'm good at working up phrases of music or chord progressions, but rarely get to a finished product.

One thing I've been meaning to do for a while is to listen to a few well selected tracks and working out the musical form/structure - bpm, key, chord progressions, sections, variations, dynamics etc. I'm guessing if you were to focus on one particular genre, you would quickly boil things down to a fairly limited number of forms that are regularly used. Albeit with slices of invention and inspiration thrown in.

I'm sure this sort of approach must be fairly common in formal music courses - something I've no experience of

mrProduca · 11-09-2009, 05:56 PM

watcha fellow producas alike, by readin your posts it seems im not the only 1 who seems 2 b goin round in circles when it comes to writin a track. 1 of my probs is that ill get something pretty solid soundin 1 day, and then hit a solid wall, or anotha day i wont be able 2 find any insp.@All! And u all know it gets pretty frustrating. My main prob is that ive been out of the production scene for about 4 years aftere goin thru a pretty ruff time due to some nasty class A life choices, nuff said, exept im 1 of the lucky few whove survived and beaten it. Back then tho i was djin every wknd, always mixin @ home so there was always something floatin about in my head. Now, whenever i try and start something i either get bored or confused as what to do next. Sayin that, i have only been back in da game since april and yes i have made a few pretty decent but 75% finished trax, so im just wondering wether i just need to b patient, as its not as if i havnt got any decent loops/samples/re-fills!! Thing is im a virgo so everything i do has to b perfect or it aint toasted 4 me!! Music was, and still is my life, so i know that a year or so down the road things will b different, i just want it all back now!! Good luck 2 anybody whos goin thru this cos u know ull get there, Peace!

knightime · 11-10-2009, 04:09 PM

In my personal experience there are no hard and fast rules with regards to song construction. Sometimes I'll start with the verse, sometimes the chorus; sometimes with the middle 8...you get my drift.

However, one thing I won't do is sit down in front of my workstation and try to compose a song from scratch. This approach just doesn't work for me (not to say it won't work for someone else!) More often than not the idea has been mulling around my head for a while, to the point where I've already formulated the direction of the song - chord progression, the type of instruments I'll be using etc. I often use whatever audio recording device is available (usually my phone!), to 'scratch out' the melody, drum pattern and so on, so that I've got a rough 'audible' idea of the song.

It's only when I feel ready that I'll get said phone, the scraps I've written lyrics on and a decent amount of time that I'll then fire up the workstation and proceed to make the 'ideas' a tangible reality.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - what works for one won't work for the other - and judging by the comments on this thread I think I'm more-or-less in the same ball park with everyone else - song construction is a personal thing - you gotta approach it in the way that's right for you.

10-29-2009, 04:02 AM	#13
KRE8A Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 46	I have to agree with you tehLORD __ [quote=tehLORD;179124]That's a great link! When i create music, i go by feeling. But in any case of building a song, it's good to know the proper procedure... The only thing i get stuck on is how T/Head Lab states that it starts as a verse, chorus, break__ where do you go to after the break? i.e.. Can it be ( verse, chorus, break, chorus, cadence ) or how does it get worded from there,,, it's a little bit confusing. It would be nice to know the structure sequence - d:?)

11-04-2009, 12:13 AM	#15
Italye Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5	Ha, usually when I paint i work on about a square inch at a time, randomly. With music, I'll make one part, work on it until it's pretty good, make a variation of it, make another variation... until i feel like i need an entirely new part, and usually i get bogged down trying to fit the new part with the old part, and all of it's variations. __________________ I'ms A Meer PEW PEW! Lasersoundsblog

11-04-2009, 12:33 AM	#16
thereformant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The (IV) Millenia Posts: 4,498	My problem is that normally i'll come up with a bunch of parts that flow into each other but by the end of the last part ive come up with im so far removed from the first part that I cant get back again so I often end up with really odd structures like this: Intro - Intro 2 - VerseA - VerseB - Chorus - Middle Section - VerseC - Middle Section 2 - VerseA2 - Verse B2 - Chorus - Ourto I'll often end up with palindromic bits in order to get to an actual repetiion of a part. ie/ ABCDEDCBC It also makes preparing crib sheet tricky, I just finished doing a load for knowing when to cur vocal takes for recording tomorrow and the riff density is ridiculous 19 parts in 6:30, and 22 parts in 8:03 were the 2 most ridiculous ones. Although to be fair a few of the parts are variations of previous ones. __________________ No Forbidding Allowed

11-09-2009, 05:56 PM	#18
mrProduca Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1	wheres all my inspir8tion? watcha fellow producas alike, by readin your posts it seems im not the only 1 who seems 2 b goin round in circles when it comes to writin a track. 1 of my probs is that ill get something pretty solid soundin 1 day, and then hit a solid wall, or anotha day i wont be able 2 find any insp.@All! And u all know it gets pretty frustrating. My main prob is that ive been out of the production scene for about 4 years aftere goin thru a pretty ruff time due to some nasty class A life choices, nuff said, exept im 1 of the lucky few whove survived and beaten it. Back then tho i was djin every wknd, always mixin @ home so there was always something floatin about in my head. Now, whenever i try and start something i either get bored or confused as what to do next. Sayin that, i have only been back in da game since april and yes i have made a few pretty decent but 75% finished trax, so im just wondering wether i just need to b patient, as its not as if i havnt got any decent loops/samples/re-fills!! Thing is im a virgo so everything i do has to b perfect or it aint toasted 4 me!! Music was, and still is my life, so i know that a year or so down the road things will b different, i just want it all back now!! Good luck 2 anybody whos goin thru this cos u know ull get there, Peace!

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10-29-2009, 04:11 PM	#14
saturnfive Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13	I would say it's like most things: better to rough it out first and then work in the detail...You don't start a painting in one corner and finish it as you go across... That said I think whatever works, or whatever inspires you is the best method. Sometimes I find if I just put the bare stuff in, the sound won't convince me and it's only after doubling guitars etc. that it starts to actually sound good....

11-06-2009, 02:38 PM	#17
Ewal Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 80	This is something I'm interested in, because I guess like alot of folk I'm good at working up phrases of music or chord progressions, but rarely get to a finished product. One thing I've been meaning to do for a while is to listen to a few well selected tracks and working out the musical form/structure - bpm, key, chord progressions, sections, variations, dynamics etc. I'm guessing if you were to focus on one particular genre, you would quickly boil things down to a fairly limited number of forms that are regularly used. Albeit with slices of invention and inspiration thrown in. I'm sure this sort of approach must be fairly common in formal music courses - something I've no experience of

11-10-2009, 04:09 PM	#19
knightime Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 172	In my personal experience there are no hard and fast rules with regards to song construction. Sometimes I'll start with the verse, sometimes the chorus; sometimes with the middle 8...you get my drift. However, one thing I won't do is sit down in front of my workstation and try to compose a song from scratch. This approach just doesn't work for me (not to say it won't work for someone else!) More often than not the idea has been mulling around my head for a while, to the point where I've already formulated the direction of the song - chord progression, the type of instruments I'll be using etc. I often use whatever audio recording device is available (usually my phone!), to 'scratch out' the melody, drum pattern and so on, so that I've got a rough 'audible' idea of the song. It's only when I feel ready that I'll get said phone, the scraps I've written lyrics on and a decent amount of time that I'll then fire up the workstation and proceed to make the 'ideas' a tangible reality. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - what works for one won't work for the other - and judging by the comments on this thread I think I'm more-or-less in the same ball park with everyone else - song construction is a personal thing - you gotta approach it in the way that's right for you.