Computer Generated Music Composition

[Sporky_McGuffin]

Originally Posted by ProEtContra

Too often the feedback is the same as in the sentences above mentioned.

So you don't like the answers? If you wanted specific feedback you should have said so. People have just voiced their honest opinions on the subject.

[ProEtContra]

Originally Posted by Sporky_McGuffin

So you don't like the answers? If you wanted specific feedback you should have said so. People have just voiced their honest opinions on the subject.

You have quite misunderstood the purpose of my discussions. Actually, I prefer "Contra" opinions.

[lespaulgb]

Originally Posted by ProEtContra

You have quite misunderstood the purpose of my discussions. Actually, I prefer "Contra" opinions.

No, I think you have misunderstood everybody else.

[Novata]

Pro Et Contra, I think you have come to the wrong forum for a positive feedback to this thread. You seem to be unshiftable from the notion that we don't understand you. However, I do feel that it is more the case of you not understanding a computer music composer/producer. I think you will have to try out some software to see for yourself what is actually involved to create your own music and then return with maybe a more open mind.

[Sporky_McGuffin]

Originally Posted by ProEtContra

You have quite misunderstood the purpose of my discussions. Actually, I prefer "Contra" opinions.

Then perhaps you should accurately state that purpose.

As far as I can gather, what you want is for people to tell you that you're right and composition should be done by computer.

[Griffin Avid]

ProEtContra Today's "composing music" is - almost - manipulation by combining and mixing with already exiting loops and patterns.
But, what's about the melody, tune...???

Those exist as loops too, but I think the point that being overlooked is while you may be combining loops and phrases to make a new composition- the person that created those loops had knowledge of music and that’s the human touch. If I create a musical phrase and load into software and you use it- that’s not the computer/IT helping you- it’s me.

There are programs to spontaneously generate music. Groove Agent/Jamstix and a bunch of other stuff that you don’t need to know much to use, BUT the designer(s) sure knew music theory and all the rules of musical composition.

And really important notice: they doesn't require any special knowledge or/and skills of composition.

But they all follow rules. Scales and such. Even compositional rules. That requires musical knowledge. As a computer programmer you can certainly understand the problems with a computer generating random numbers. It’s never really random, is it? There are always ‘rules’ or limits or parameters. So you’d be stuck programming in human touches and tendencies and then it becomes YOU and not the computer again.


And even if you take it at its most fantastic level. A wholly compuer generated composition…

Once I decide what to keep and throw away- it’s human.
Even if you leave it alone, once we decide what randomness to appreciate- it becomes human again.

Finally, computer music should sound like a printer…printing, a hard drive spinning up.
Since you (human) decide what a note is and you decided what octaves are- you are creating rules based on your own upbringing and cultural biases. Will you set a limit on tempo?
For a computer to aid in musical composition, it has be given/programmed with the rules of musical composition. i.e. tempos between 65 and 160 bpms only. Pitch recognition.


Where’s FOK when you need him?!

There’s a morality in this too. Autopilot flies the plane. There comes a point where a computer/machine can do a task. There’s a line that crossed between helping and doing it for you. Every artist knows that line- when it’s too much of an outside influence guiding your hands. For everyone it’s different.

Where’s FOK when you need him?!

[dissonance_is_bliss]

Originally Posted by ProEtContra

It wasn’t a long time ago, with the appearance of computers...
"...computers will never defeat humans in the game of chess..."
"...Robert Moog: a dangerous anarchist out to destroy music as we know it..."
There's no area of art, science... that hasn't been compared in this or any other similar way.
Now, try to imagine musicians today who had never used the computer or chess analysis without comp assistance or...

So what is my point here you ask?

A couple of days ago, I have started in this, as well as in some other popular and well visited forums, a new thread titled "Computer Generated Music Composition". The topic for general discussion was a question "Pro Et Contra" on subject: programs for virtual composing / virtual music composers.

Too often the feedback is the same as in the sentences above mentioned.

So, do we have to wait again for several more years before we admit to ourselves that computers have become an inevitable and helpful tool while composing music. Whether we like it or not, it is reality.
The human touch will never be replaced, but that does not neccessarily mean that it can not be pushed and helped by IT. IT can do it also!

i think that you are speaking in broad generalities and pointless binaries.

creating software that can compose has been done and the general consensus the scores produced were both derivative and banal. this, i assume, meets your criteria of a "virtual composer."

using the term "virtual composition," on the other hand, is somewhat disingenuous. a musical score, in the western tradition, is a symbolic coding system and remains essentially abstract until is is performed and/or fed through a sequencer. the score is a program.

this is also an old argument that has largely had it's heyday of thesis/antithesis/synthesis.

[Kalmo]

What a thread!!
With all respect, ProEtContra, your opening post (and some of those that followed) left everybody wondering "what does that mean...is there a question included?" But here's my 2 cents worth..

Computer generated music is composed by the person who made the program..or?

Tsillionbillion traditionally made compositions have been "inspired by" = copied from existing pieces of music. Just changing a note here and another there in the end. How does it differ from letting the computer create a stem which you then finalize?

The hard part: How can we tell the machine made music from the "real" music? There's no way. Just like we can never know if a beautiful painting is made by painting on a picture slide projected on the canvas.

[Sporky_McGuffin]

I've had tunes inspired by things that Elektroplankton has come up with. I s'pose that could be seen as computer aided composition.

[spawn]

i spy from the corner of my eye.. (Left eye..)


http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/buy/cinescore


i spy from the other corner of my other eye..(right eye.... that is)


http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/themepacks