improvisation

[clare_bear]

I'm determined to spend some time this year concentrating on improv. At this stage, I'm happy enough to just do simple, unoriginal blues/rock type soloing that sounds convincing.

I started applying myself this weekend and learnt a lick from 'Blues Licks You Can Use'. I wrote out several different places on the fretboard where it could be played and tried to play around with it against a backing track.

I then decided that learning CAGED chords would help me use the minor pentatonic scale more effectively.

I then had a meltdown, screamed and threw the guitar across the room! This may not be true, but I did become somewhat frustrated!

This long-winded passage has meandered to this question:
How did you go about starting to learn to play along to a blues, blues/rock backing track?

Did you start off by spending time learning licks and messing arouns with them before you worried about the theory side?

Should I learn licks, play along and get good at that before I worry about anything else? I know the 5 minor pent shapes, and if I move sequentially up the fretboard I can use them, but if I am to skip around the fretboard, I can't 'see' the scale shapes. Any advice?

I need to take it slowly, as I'm always trying to run before I can walk. So if anyone can suggest some sort of logical order to starting and improving soloing,I'd be very grateful!

Cheers

[deedee]

I think we are about at the same stage in our playing clare.

I found it easiest to work out note positions of the chords I was playing over and then fit a scale over that chord.

Does that make sense? Is that a little predictable. Soloing is not really my bag as I am happiest doing the rhythm thing

[clare_bear]

Originally Posted by deedee

I think we are about at the same stage in our playing clare.

I found it easiest to work out note positions of the chords I was playing over and then fit a scale over that chord.

Does that make sense? Is that a little predictable. Soloing is not really my bag as I am happiest doing the rhythm thing

Makes sense, ta.

I'm the same as you, I don't think soloing is really my thing, but I want to be able to do it a bit - I guess I can't really say it's not my thing if I haven't tried it!

I have no desire to shred, just putting together some short, tasteful solos would be nice. And the ability to hold my own in an improv situation, I suppose. I think I'm aiming at being a mediocre all-rounder, ATM!

[duane]

Sing a simple phrase along with the first or main part of the backing, then switch the backing off if necessary, singing your phrase all the time. Then work out your phrase on the guitar (on one string if necessary). When you have it, start up the backing again and play your phrase a couple of times, then twist it around a bit e.g. repeat a note or fragment, stretch or contract the notes or parts.

Hopefully instant musical and personal phrasing

Good luck!

[Cass]

The most difficult thing I found when first starting to improv was what scales/licks to use and where. The first thing I tried was a somewhat copyist approach. I took licks from well-known blues players (BB King, Clapton etc) and tried to apply them in different songs that I could play eg using some BB King licks in a Led Zep tune.

The singing approach (humming a melody/lead passage then playing it) worked very well for me, especially helping with ear training.

Overall, I tried to collate a sort of 'lick bag', where I would pull out certain licks where I thought they might work. It was a bit of hit and miss at first, but eventually my ear recognised what licks, scales and patterns could go where, so I applied them. This is obviously before taking into account feel and tone, so it really started out as a technical exercise. You could try taking some well-known licks and applying them to different tunes and keys, further helping your ear recognise what can fit and where.

Hope this helps!

[clare_bear]

Thanks people. It all helps at this stage!

It seems to be more about applying it and letting the fingers/brain remember it through repetition, rather than a conscious learning of scales - if that makes sense.

[jalapeno]

Finger AND ear memory

[clare_bear]

Originally Posted by jalapeno

Finger AND ear memory

As long as they'll do it on their own with minimal conscious effort from me!

[Snap]

Hi Clare,

all of the above and learn some scales. And then follow your nose. I'm always impressed by any form of soloing tbh as it doesn't come easliy to me at all. My style is somewhere between rhythm and lead I think. I also tend to play round a chord - get a feel of what notes make up the chord and what you can get a way with around it.

and I bet none of that is particularly useful is it!

and there's nothing wrong with pentatonics and blues/rock riffs - if you listen, loads of solos are done round them. Often maligned, and often underestimated is the pentatonic. Lots of people use it but a few use it outstandingly.

[Lewy]

Without wishing to sound like a cop out, the most beneficial thing you can do for your improvisation is to be a prolific listener - just like any author who's any good will tell you the best thing you can do for your writing is to be a fanacital reader.

Licks and scales are important, of course, in order to actually be able to execute ideas but the key thing with improvisation is having ideas in the first place and that can't develop in a vaccuum (sp?).

The trick is how to listen - as well as trying to copy phrases and licks from records, you should also allow yourself time to listen without a guitar nearby, and just concentrate on the landscape of what you're listeninig to. Where does the melody rise and fall, slow down and speed up? How does the length of the phrases vary and what effect does that have on you as a listener. What are the overall "colours" being used - happy/major, sad/minor, bluesy etc.Some dedicated time spent listening in that way will just naturally come out in your playing.

A very good pro bass player and teacher I know once said to me, in a conversation about technique, that you'll always find a way to play what you really want to, that's just time and practice. What makes a musician is knowing what you really want to play.